I'm wondering if some of you could give me a ballpark estimate of how much each component would cost for our off-grid Renewable Energy system. Also, any recommendations for vendors would be appreciated as well.
- SW Wind turbine (Skystream 3.7 or Air Breeze)
- PV panels (~1.5 kw)
- Solar Thermal drainback system for our radiant floor heating system
- Radiant flooring through 75% of first floor and ~40% of second floor
- Battery backup 48-volt system
- Four AC inverters for four zones (rather than whole house on one inverter)
- Other energy device requirements (Charge Controllers, Combiner Box, DC Disconnect, etc)
- Wiring for electrical, including a run to an external shed for possible (likely) FE device that itself could power the home.
- Three on-demand water heaters that will top off the solar thermal hot water for sinks, showers, laundry, kitchen.
- Free Energy device.
We're going with DC or LED lighting. DC fridge and freezer. The house is going to be wired AC, with one DC run to each room. As for fridge and freezer, we've been told: "This is very costly and offers little savings with inverters today all over 96% efficient".
The house as planned is around 1600 square feet and will have a solarium running the length of the south end. The home is for 2 adults, 4 kids; home school; work from home (home most the time).
The next-to-final draft of the floor plans are available here
Note: There was a wrong assumption in drawing this floor plan -- that the second floor was tapered in from the first (per an earlier design) -- but that is no longer the case. The second floor has the same size as the first. The domed arch doesn't begin unti 4 feet up on the second floor.
We need these budget numbers by 1/11 if possible.
Feel free to respond via sterlingda {at} pureenergysystems.com I plan to post the budget on my site.
Other comments/suggestions are welcome as well.
This is going to be my home, and I'd like it to reflect some of the best thinking and resources available from a renewable energy point of view.
Thx
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Some feedback
on January 06, 2010 11:41 AM Mountain, Jim Dunn wrote:
Sterling – I agree with Rich. George on the wind turbine – long payback, mostly sizzle.
Also- go with Evac. Tubes and Glycol, with a large capacity storage tank (200G or more)
The most important thing is selecting a local installer, and working with him on his preferred vendors.
There is no value on having more than one inverter for a 1.5KW PV system. Better to add more PV, like 3-4 KW.
The house is not really that big to justify several ‘flash’ heaters, just locate one close to the main bath and laundry room.
To determine battery sizing, est. the energy used per hour times the number of hours of backup desired X 1.2 for capacity factor (you never want to run the system down below 20% SOS.
Apollo makes the best charge controller. Midnight and Outback make good BOS components.
Start with a budget, and see where your $$ are best spent.
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on January 06, 2010 10:11 AM Mountain, Richard P. George, Ph.D. wrote:
I am getting 240 Wp Canadian Solar monocrystalline modules from Canadian Solar for $1.78 per wp plus shipping. We'll be getting the 250 and 260 Wp modules starting in April at the same prices. These are wholesale rates but I probably could get some shipped to you.
Don't waste your money on the wind turbine. Unless if you have a perfect location, solar will be much more cost effective.
You want one inverter setup with more battery storage. Batteries are expensive. I'm going with the Xantrex XW series with 48 volt batteries. This can support 3 inverter
Don't do a drainback system. Do a closed system with glycol in the pipes with a storage tank with a heat exchanger. I like the evacuated tube systems best. Be sure to properly size the storage tank and collection array if you want to use it for both hot water and heating.
Why use three on demand water heaters? Use one central one.
Run the entire system through Peswiki as a business expense depreciated over 5 years so you can get the 30% grant from Treasury
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On January 06, 2010 9:26 AM Mountain, Jim Dunn wrote:
Sterling – Not enough info to fully estimate, but here is a rough SWAG:
See costs alongside the items, below – many of your ideas are not practical or cost effective.
From: Sterling D. Allan
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:50 AM
To: Jim Dunn; Richard P. George
Subject: budget for RE for our home
Hi Jim and Richard,
I'm wondering if you could give me a ballpark estimate of how much it would cost to install our off-grid Renewable Energy system
- SW Wind turbine (Skystream 3.7 or Air Breeze) - $15K – ($5k for turbine, $5K for tower, and $4-5K to install)
- PV panels (~1.5 kw) - $9K with inverter
- Solar Thermal drainback system for our radiant floor heating system - $3-6K based on capacity
- Radiant flooring through 75% of first floor and ~40% of second floor - ?? size – could be about $5-10K with tanks, pumps, controls, plumbing
- Battery backup 48-volt system - $300-350/KWH – how much backup do you want ?
- Five AC inverters for five zones (rather than whole house on one inverter) – Why ? Small inverters are expensive @ $.65-.80/W and less efficient, and don’t allow for peak loads
- Other energy device requirements (Power Controllers, etc) Details ??
- Wiring for electrical, including a run to an external shed for possible (likely) FE device that itself could power the home. - $ vary if overhead or buried ? figure $10/Ft.
- Three on-demand water heaters that will top off the solar thermal hot water for sinks, showers, laundry, kitchen. - $1K each for electric ‘flash’ heaters
We're going with DC or LED lighting. DC fridge and freezer. This is very costly and offers little savings with inverters today all over 96% efficient – Why bother with inverters then?
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On January 11, 2010 9:50 PM Hawaii time; Tai Robinson wrote:
Sterling, do you have any plans, drawings or a site lay out I can view. I need to visit your site and get a bit more detail to offer you a quote, or even a ball-park estimate. When are you available to bring me out to your project and take a look?
A SkyStream is about $5,700 and an AirBreeze is about $800. These are 2 totally different machines, one a 1.8kW unit and one a 300watt unit. The towers, wire and installation all depend on location, dirt, length of run, etc.... Schedule 40 pipe for an AirBreeze can be as little as $100, a 32foot monopole tower for a SkyStream is about $6,000 plus delivery. Soil type makes a big difference. I have a guy that might do the engineering evaluation for free because he is slow and bored right now....
A 200 watt PV panel runs about $1,000. Sometimes I can get them for as little as $200 depending on supply, sometimes up to $2,000 for the new ones that are 100% + rating. Again, the installation is the big ? where are they to be mounted? What kind of racks are we to use? Tracking or stationary? how far is the run to the inverter?, or battery charger. There are some great inline, per panel inverters that maximize or even increase the per pannel output that also offer remote monitoring of the system with any computer, from any location in the world. I just bid on a 4kW complete solar system for a Colorado installltion to get their great tax credit and it was about $35,000 total before credit, after credit, the price to the customer was $10,000. Ruffly expect $7 to $11 per watt instaled.
Solar hot water is the most economical system you have mentioned here and should be a top priority. We can simply heat domestic hot water and radiant floors, or we can go further and cool your house and offer refrigeration as well. I can show you a great example on a horse property in Draper that was over built with 3 different temperature storage tanks and overcapacity to add on cooling and refrigeratin later.
How big of a battery back up system are you looking for? How long do you want to run what appliances?? Are you going to be grid connected, or stand alone?
Are you doing 5 houses, or one? A good inverter is about $6,000. I think you are going to want just one, not 5.
Do you want electric water heaters or gas? I would definately reccomend gas. The electric requirement to heat water from PV panels would require much more than 1.5kW system. You would probably want a 20kW array and need to budget $200,000 or so for it. Do you have access to a natural gas line? Or are you going to have propane delivered?
2 electrical systems makes the most sense so you can use DC directly for your LED lighting and then AC for everything else. I would reccomend a regular refrigerator over a DC one. The DC ones are not adequate. You will be much happier with a normal frig and freezer since you want AC anyway....
Give me a call sometime.
--
Tai W. Robinson
Intergalactic
http://www.AmericanFuelVehicles.com
